MSX-AUDIO cartridges

[mars2000you]

MSX-AUDIO seems to work partially with C-BIOS.

I've tested them in blueMSX after addition of a MSX-AUDIO chip (without addition of a rom) in the configuration of a C-BIOS machine.

It should be enough to hear MSX-AUDIO with demos if C-BIOS had disk and BASIC support, as insertion of a MSX-AUDIO rom is only required in some cases : Compile diskmagazines and games, using of MSX-AUDIO BASIC, running of the intern firmware, ....

On this last point, C-BIOS supports already MSX-AUDIO :

- you can start the Toshiba MSX-AUDIO if you don't press on ESC in the boot sequence (access to the firmware)

- you can start the Panasonic MSX-AUDIO if the switch is in the ON position (you access to the firmware)

- you can start the Philips MSX-AUDIO if you use the correct dump (mirrored rom) and don't press on ESC in the boot sequence : you access to the firmware.

I hope that future developments of C-BIOS will allow to use the Panasonic MSX-AUDIO rom in slot 1 (and the switch in the OFF position) with one of the following games in slot 2 : Labyrinth, Xevious, Family Stadium.

In the same way, the MSX-MUSIC cartridges with intern firmware (Panasonic, Checkmark) should be also supported by C-BIOS.

[Vampier]

Is this a bug report or a feature request?

[mars2000you]

both

[Vampier]

Then what is the bug We are not quite sure what the bug is and what the RFE is can you elaborate in them

[mars2000you]

The bug : C-BIOS doesn't support completely MSX-AUDIO (and MSX-MUSIC) cartridges because it has problems with these roms.

Complete working of the MSX-AUDIO cartridges here :

http://www.msxblue.com/manual/msxaudio.htm

The RFE : support completely these cartridges ! ... and the first step should concern Panasonic MSX-AUDIO working with the 3 mentioned rom games ... (no need to disk or BASIC support for that)

[Manuel]

What problems does it have?

Those games don't detect the MSX-AUDIO when using C-BIOS?
This is then probably a bug in C-BIOS, not a missing feature. The BIOS knows knothing about MSX-AUDIO, so neither should C-BIOS.

[mars2000you]

No, the problem is that the MSX-AUDIO cartridges are not completely supported by C-BIOS.

Panasonic cartridge :
- when started with switch in position ON, you access to the firmware
- when started with switch in position OFF, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Toshiba cartridge :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Philips cartridge (good dump corresponding to the working of the original cartridge) :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Philips cartridge (modified version to inverse the ESC feature) :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware

And to be complete, the MSX-MUSIC cartridges with intern firmware :

Panasonic cartridge (FM-PAC) :

the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Checkmark cartridge (FM-PAK) :

the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

[mars2000you]

Those games don't detect the MSX-AUDIO when using C-BIOS?

These games need the insertion of the Panasonic MSX-AUDIO cartridge in slot 1 to use MSX-AUDIO in stead of PSG (and the switch of the cartridge must be in position OFF)

As C-BIOS doesn't find the Panasonic MSX-AUDIO when the switch is OFF, these games can't use MSX-AUDIO ....

[Vampier]

c-bios has no basic, right now it's useless to test these until we have basic and disk support and we are able fully test the potential of c-bios and external audio extensions. Right now I personally couldn't care less as long as it works with rom carts I'm fine, that's basically what c-bios still is... a rom cart bios with the potential to grow into an full fledged bios

We are going for perfection, but perfection costs time... and time has to come from the developers.

Games with MSX-AUDIO support require the MSX-AUDIO ROM (like aleste)

[bifimsx]

No, the problem is that the MSX-AUDIO cartridges are not completely supported by C-BIOS.

Panasonic cartridge :
- when started with switch in position ON, you access to the firmware
- when started with switch in position OFF, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Toshiba cartridge :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Philips cartridge (good dump corresponding to the working of the original cartridge) :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Philips cartridge (modified version to inverse the ESC feature) :

- when starting without pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"
- when starting with pressing on ESC in the boot sequence, you access to the firmware

And to be complete, the MSX-MUSIC cartridges with intern firmware :

Panasonic cartridge (FM-PAC) :

the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

Checkmark cartridge (FM-PAK) :

the cartridge is not detected by C-BIOS : "No cartridge found"

All this is 100% correct behaviour with C-BIOS. Why?

FM-PAC is only accessed with the built-in FM-BIOS or FM-BASIC. It has no self-init code to start any of the internals software with. Same goes for FM-PAK. The internal software of MSX-AUDIO, Toshiba module and Philips Music Module do have this and will boot correctly.

C-BIOS still lacks any BASIC features, so the internal software of FM-PAC or FM-PAK will not be able to run yet without it, since the commands for those are CALL FMPAC and CALL FMPAK.

GreeTz, BiFi

[bifimsx]

Games with MSX-AUDIO support require the MSX-AUDIO ROM (like aleste)

I don't think Aleste has MSX-AUDIO support, though Xevious does have.

GreeTz, BiFi

[mars2000you]

Games with MSX-AUDIO support require the MSX-AUDIO ROM (like aleste)

I don't think Aleste has MSX-AUDIO support, though Xevious does have.

GreeTz, BiFi

That's a MSX curiosity : Aleste demos on Compile diskstations can use MSX-AUDIO (if a MSX-AUDIO cartridge is in a slot and, eventually, after using of a special poke for the Philips and Toshiba cartridges), but the definitive version of the game can't use MSX-AUDIO ...

[Manuel]

To give a (now superfluous, thanks to Bifi) reply: the behvaviour is indeed totally normal.

No cartridge found doesn't mean the cartridge is not inserted in the MSX. It just means that C-BIOS can't find a cartridge to boot. And since the firmware is turned off, the cartridge won't be bootable and hence C-BIOS won't find it.

Any game however, should be able to find it. So, when starting a C-BIOS based machine with the MSX-AUDIO inserted (skipping firmware) and a game that uses it, it should just work. Can you confirm this?

[bifimsx]

Games with MSX-AUDIO support require the MSX-AUDIO ROM (like aleste)

I don't think Aleste has MSX-AUDIO support, though Xevious does have.

GreeTz, BiFi

That's a MSX curiosity : Aleste demos on Compile diskstations can use MSX-AUDIO (if a MSX-AUDIO cartridge is in a slot and, eventually, after using of a special poke for the Philips and Toshiba cartridges), but the definitive version of the game can't use MSX-AUDIO ...

Maybe, but after researching the rom image (read: search for the call to EXTBIO where MSX-AUDIO is searched for) there's nothing which can be related to it. You can always insert MSX-AUDIO and run Aleste.

The fact the demo versions have that support is most likely to either comply to some standard (use MSX-AUDIO as well) or some test thing. I guess the final version didn't have room for MSX-AUDIO support as well.

GreeTz, BiFi

[mars2000you]

Any game however, should be able to find it. So, when starting a C-BIOS based machine with the MSX-AUDIO inserted (skipping firmware) and a game that uses it, it should just work. Can you confirm this?

The problem is to simulate the presence of the Panasonic MSX-AUDIO cartridge in slot 1.

We know that on a real machine, we can do that by inserting a Toshiba or Philips MSX-AUDIO and typing this in MSX-BASIC :

POKE -54,35:POKE&HF346,1:_SYSTEM

But this trick works only with Compile diskmagazines and disk games, not with the 3 mentioned rom games, because this command includes a reboot that configures the MSX memory in the MSX-DOS mode